Scaling a leader-led development program globally

Luke Morriss: We believe we have some of the best talent, and we wanted to leverage the great experience, skills, knowledge that our leaders bring. We wanted them to share their real stories, not theory, real leaders sharing real leadership insights around things that they have done.

Luke Morriss: And that's one of the most powerful outcomes we've seen is just that cross-functional collaboration, the closeness of it, making our global organization feel smaller. Plus it means that those leaders have visibility of key talent all around the business, and it means that when we start to talk about development, it becomes more real, rather than, "I don't know who that person is," it's, "Oh, this person shared this insight, which has helped my team members connect and join the dots." So that collaboration, that problem solving, that relationship building is really powerful.

Mike Courian: Welcome to Shapeshifters, the podcast on the hunt for passionate individuals who are discovering and rediscovering the best ways to transform people and organizations for good. I'm your host, Mike Courian. Thanks for being here with us.

This episode is part of our Transformation Series, where we speak to working leaders in learning and development, org development, transformation, and change. We'll dive straight to the heart of what these professionals are focusing on, hear what the biggest challenges their organizations are facing, and see the amazing work they're doing to equip their teams for this new world of work.

Throughout this series, either myself or my co-founder, Dan, will be leading these conversations.

Okay, let's jump into today's episode.

Dan Hibberd: So, Luke, welcome to Shapeshifters' Transformation Series. We're stoked that you were able to join us, and I'm excited to have you sharing some of the insights you've been having from rolling out your leadership programs at Fisher & Paykel Appliances. But before we get into the details, I'm going to throw you, quick introduction. Who is Luke? Where do you work? What's your role, and uh and then we'll go from there.

Luke Morriss: Awesome. Thanks, Dan. Thanks for having me as well.

Um, yeah, work at Fisher & Paykel Appliances. I'm the Global Organizational Development Manager. I have been at Fisher & Paykel for nearly four years, within this current role for just a little bit over two, but essentially our role is to look at how we support the business to achieve its outcomes. We've got a particular focus in our team on leadership development. We also look at other aspects of learning development, in terms of culture, performance, but leadership development is a big priority for us.

Dan Hibberd: Tell me, talk to us about, you know, how many leadership programs have you got running at once? Give us the overview of the leadership offering.

Luke Morriss: The big one that has been a focus for our team for the last five or so years at least is our Leadership Development Program. We're about to start cohort 50 this month, so we're looking at over 5-600 leaders who have now taken part through that particular program, which is a foundational program for us. It's really around the models, the framework, the practices, the principles for everybody to be a leader at Fisher & Paykel, or everyone to demonstrate leadership in their day-to-day roles.

We do have a couple of other new initiatives that we've started, so we're targeting future successors for executive or GM-level roles, so we've got a leadership offering underway, which is targeting a very small group around their executive leadership development.

And later this month, we're starting essentially what you'd say is phase two, or the next evolution from the leadership program, which is taking what we've learned in the first program and applying it into a day-to-day environment. So it's not so much a program, it's just this is how we're now applying it in the work, with a chance to wrap around some learning around, "Okay, what does it look like now that we're actually putting this into practice?"

So they're probably the bigger the big three ones for us at the moment, as well as all of the supporting infrastructure around online

Luke Morriss: learning, be it SharePoint or a learning module, or just the day-to-day interactions that take place.

Dan Hibberd: Those programs, I think, will sound familiar in in some form to a lot of organizations, but when we spoke, what stood out was the unique way that you've managed to achieve scale and that you have been facilitating and and delivering these programs, not looking to an external resource, not leveraging L&D, but really going how do we have our leaders be the face of this program and delivering it? And so, that's really where I'd love to kind of double-click today because I think it's quite unique and a really powerful way to deliver.

So maybe if you talk to us about how it came about that you designed this program that is being completely delivered by your 40 or so leaders in the organization?

Luke Morriss: We believe we have some of the best talent working for Fisher & Paykel, and we wanted to leverage the great experience, skills, knowledge that our leaders bring. We wanted them to share their real stories, not theory, we didn't want HR to speak, it was real leaders sharing real leadership insights around things that they have done.

And our CEO was really keen on that, and we aligned pretty early that we wanted the design of our leadership program to be leader-led. And we've probably got about 50 or so of our senior leaders involved in our leadership program at the moment. They play an active role in designing and delivering or facilitating the leadership program, which is nice cuz we've got a common framework that we all speak to.

The nuance is just then around what does it mean for this person, maybe they're a finance leader, or a supply chain leader, or a sales leader. So everyone taking part will hear a different story, but underpinning that is the same principles which everyone gets in terms of a common language.

But it just means that one, our leaders are playing an active role in delivering it, they take ownership of the program, and they start investing back into the rest of the leaders who are coming

Luke Morriss: through, which just creates this culture of learning and sharing with one another, which is pretty, pretty awesome to sit back and observe. And our role is quite different now because we're now coaching, we're facilitating, we're helping to set up, we're not the ones delivering. So, it puts our OD team in a different space. But just, it also means that our leaders take part, facilitating, they get growth as well.

So, they're having to speak publicly, they're having to reflect on their experiences, they're having to coach. So, it's lifting their leadership as well as those taking part hearing from those stories and then going, "How might I apply that?" which is really powerful.

Dan Hibberd: And I imagine for those leaders that are taking part in delivery as well, it's also an opportunity to hear voices from other parts of the business that they're not involved in to hear what resonates to to better understand some of the challenges that might exist in the business as well.

Luke Morriss: And that's one of the most powerful outcomes we've seen is just that cross-functional collaboration, just the closeness of it making a really big global industry or organization feel smaller. Plus, it means that those leaders have visibility of key talent all around the business, and it just means that when we start to talk about development, it's actually, it becomes a little bit more real. Rather than, "I don't know who that person is," it's, "Oh, this person shared this insight, which is helping my team members connect and join the dots." So, that collaboration, that problem-solving, that relationship-building is really powerful.

Dan Hibberd: When I hear you talk about the fact that you've got these 50 leaders delivering, you know, my brain goes straight to the challenge, which I hear a lot of organizations talk about when they try to engage leaders in delivery of a program. And that is that leaders are busy, they're time-poor. How did it come about that you know, they've got the buy-in that you do, and that you're able to kind of overcome some of the classic challenges to getting them to engage and to really invest? You know, it's not a small undertaking that that you've

Dan Hibberd: stepping into.

Luke Morriss: Yeah. We've got leaders requesting to be part of it, which is the nice part where we've got to. And it also means that if one can't make it for travel or sickness or whatever reasons, we've got another—we've got plenty on the bench, so to speak, to draw upon.

We were pretty selective early on when the first few cohorts started to run. We deliberately chose leaders who had strong experience, were good role models, and that really set a nice foundation for what was to come. Our team's deliberately focused on key talent or key people we see as the future. And we've made a deliberate effort to engage them around this as a chance for you to be visible, to get your own leadership development. It's a good chance for you to give back all those intrinsic drivers. But it's also a chance for you to become closer to the leadership language and be a key leader within our leadership community.

And a lot of our leaders really recognised that as a good growth and development opportunity for themselves. Plus they saw it as a good chance to get feedback, to get coaching, and to work with one another, which is really what they were after. To the point now, like I said, we've got a lot of people going, "How do I get to do that? Because that's something I'm really keen on," because they've seen how others have gone through it and they've seen the outcomes that they've achieved. So it's gotten to a point where it's starting to snowball itself, yeah.

Dan Hibberd: Yeah. That's fantastic. And it's probably a position that a lot of people would dream of that feels like a long way away. So how much You talked about you've got senior leadership support right from the start. The CEO was interested in having leaders, you know, play a part of it. Obviously that's a key part in getting their buy-in. Can you talk to us about, you know, what are some of the other things that have kind of, I guess, enabled you to leverage these leaders? You know, what kind of support do you provide them so that it's maybe less of an ask? And practically, what does it look like for them to give their time, you know, when you think about an average delivery of a

Dan Hibberd: program. What is it they're actually giving?

Luke Morriss: Yeah, probably I'll give a bit of insight around what the program looks like. We've got our own internally designed framework for leadership. Within that, there's a series of models and tools that our leaders get exposed to through the leadership program, and that gives everyone a common language, a shared language, so to speak.

Our team plays a role in terms of supporting leaders to choose a date and a time of a module that suits them. Once they've selected that particular date, we spend some time really just doing a bit of a Q&A with them to understand what's your experience, what's your story, help us give some language to that.

Our team then goes away and writes up some notes to support that. So essentially, the leaders come along, they just get to talk freely. Our job's to skilfully question and get good examples from them. We then craft some notes and share back with them to go, "Hey, this is what you said. Is that the intent of what you heard?"

Thereafter, they can just essentially recycle those notes again and again, so they essentially do their script once and then we've got it on an ongoing basis. And we do that for every module, so usually we have at least two facilitators per module. We then just combine those into one story and we do a bit of a run-through and a practice session with those two facilitators.

And then when we actually get into the module itself, we've got times where the group might be doing a breakout or a brainstorm or an activity. That's where, as a trio, if you like, we get back together and just check around how we are going.

And essentially, we've got those sort of support structures all the way through,

Dan Hibberd: Yeah.

Luke Morriss: from a, here's how I sign up, to here's my script, my practice run-through into the session. And then if they come back again, which most of them do, we essentially recycle those notes, so there's a little bit of in- upfront investment in terms of just getting ready, but then they get into the flow of it and then they become all present and it just becomes a, am I listening, am I coaching, am I facilitating within the session rather than what's my script?

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Dan Hibberd: And I love the fact that you're not just throwing a facilitator's guide at them and going, "Here, yeah, here's the PowerPoint deck and the presenter notes, learn this, deliver this." That you're actually co-creating their script, or, you know, and the things that they're going to speak to. You know, you've obviously got some standardized shared language around, you know, models and frameworks that you use, but actually the majority of what they're speaking to, you know, it sounds like are their own words that you have just organized for them, and their own experiences. So, you know, I can, you know, I can imagine that significantly lowers the effort, and the fear, and the anxiety associated, potentially, with delivering to a group, as when you're actually talking about things that you know really well, and you're able to say them in a way that you say them naturally, because it's it's been co-created with your team.

Luke Morriss: Yeah, the- they can speak to it confidently cuz it's stuff they've done. It's not a theory that they've read or something that they've heard. They get to just share what they've done and what's worked for them. It's up to those listening to decide whether or not that's helpful for them, but our leaders sharing, they just get to talk from what they've done, which is really powerful. And all the time, you can hear the passion, the joy from what they've been able to do coming through, which is really powerful. It connects with people. It's authentic, it's genuine.

Dan Hibberd: There's nothing better

Dan Hibberd: And I think hearing from a leader within your business, their authentic kind of insights and learnings, you know, from their own experience, it has all the context of the organization. So, they're not foreign examples. You know, you can kind of see a through line even if you're not in finance as to why that's important or where that challenge sits.

Luke Morriss: And we wanted that right up front. Like I said, that was something we aligned on early on, that this was going to be leader-led. It was sharing real-life examples within the business, preferably. Yes, we do hear some personal stories come in around how leadership applies to family, or sports, or community involvement, but predominantly, it's stuff that's survived the heat of work at Fisher & Paykel coming through.

And that's what people really understand, cuz they see it every day. What we didn't want was an off-the-shelf, anyone coming in talking theory, cuz people are going, "That's all well in theory, but this is actually the reality of Fisher & Paykel." That's So, we wanted to go, let's just make that the starting point. Let's talk about leadership in practice of what it actually is to do leadership at Fisher & Paykel. That's our learning.

Dan Hibberd: And so, I imagine with this, Luke, you're possibly giving or sacrificing—sacrificing probably isn't the right word, a little bit of consistency because you're going to have a slightly different, you know, take or delivery and examples from each leader. So, how do you balance the desire for consistency, you're a large kind of global organization, really diverse teams, with kind of giving that flexibility for the leader to to make it their own and use their own stories?

Luke Morriss: Yeah, we have that common framework which all of the leaders will speak to. So, there's common models and tools that are there, that's the consistent part. The difference is around how that then is brought to life through the stories that are shared and the cohort that's formed.

So, the journey will look fairly consistent by way of, say, Dan's going through the six modules within our program,

Luke Morriss: I'll go through the same six, but the stories that you'll hear will be reflective of who's leading those sessions, which might be different to the leaders that I experience. But that's the powerful part, because then when Dan and I come together afterwards, what stories did you hear, then we start to share stories within ourselves. And then that means the learning just keeps going beyond the event itself, and then it starts to become a bit more organic. And actually, that's how work happens, is through people sharing. So that's the powerful thing is kind of balancing the consistency with the flexibility, if you like, that for us it's powerful , it's been powerful seeing that evolve over time.

Dan Hibberd: So you've got these fixed frameworks and models, and then these flexible stories and examples of application and what that looks like in the organization. So you mentioned a format there, you know, how many sessions is it over the year? So each cohort, you know, how many times are they coming together with the leader to take part in a session?

Luke Morriss: For the leadership development program, we've got cohorts of about 24. They will meet six times over about nine months, and each session's about four and a half hours long.

So plenty of time for them to connect. In between sessions, they've got little challenges that they're completing in smaller teams of four, where they go away and put some of the models and tools into practice. They're doing that within their own little teams. They're also then applying that in their day-to-day work.

So plenty of time to come together to make sense of things together, but also time to do one-on-one with their one-up leader as well throughout. In terms of the other programs, all vary. So our senior leadership group is coming together maybe two or three times over 12 months. The focus of that is less on learning the tools and the models, but more around applying it. And then our leadership in practice initiative, which we're getting underway in a few weeks, they're coming together about four times over the course of 12 months. So

Luke Morriss: plenty of time to come together, but we really want to keep the focus around, okay, let's put it into practice because that's, like I said, leadership's not done in workshops and events, leadership is done in the day-to-day interaction of delivering work.

Dan Hibberd: Yeah, and I think closing that knowing-doing gap is a challenge for everyone, and I love to hear that you've got these kind of peer-to-peer elements where you're you're getting people back on the job in you know, small groups to to practice and and apply what they're learning. Okay, so Luke, you've clearly got some amazing programs running and have taken some really interesting approaches with what you've done so far with leadership development at Fisher & Paykel. Can you tell me about what the future holds? What's on the horizon?

Luke Morriss: Yeah, if I kind of just link back to the start, so the starting point was to get a common framework and shared language set up. We've now started to get through a lot of our leadership population that we've prioritized for that. We'll start to slow that one down. The next evolution will be then dialling up, okay, let's take what we've learned and put it into practice, so it becomes not a program, but this is just the way we lead every day.

And so there'll be a lot more of a leader with their people starting to go, how do we work together? What's leadership really look like for us in terms of coaching or delivering an outcome that's significant to the business?

Dan Hibberd: Yeah.

Luke Morriss: And then we've got the accelerated program for our senior leaders really looking into those key executive or GM level roles.

So all of our leadership infrastructure or ecosystem, if you like, starts to become a little bit more targeted, specific and really responding to context as opposed to here's the foundational stuff. It's then starting to shift towards going, how do we take that and actually do good with it? Because ultimately leadership development is around driving better performance for us.

Dan Hibberd: Fantastic. Well Luke, I'm conscious that we need to let you go, but maybe as we wrap up, yeah what's one thing that you

Dan Hibberd: would leave, you know, for our listeners, for those involved in learning, development, leadership, transformation, that you've learned that you think is a key takeaway for people?

Luke Morriss: Probably a couple things for me, Dan. I think one, getting support and buy-in early on from CEO, executive leaders, helping to design what that looks like, really important. It means you've got a big advocate or advocates there to support the roll out of any initiatives.

I think the other one that's been really fundamental for us is having that shared, common language and framework. It just makes it really easy. What we hear and see now is just the use of those tools, models, the language coming through just makes It's like a shortcut. It breaks down all the barriers. So, yes, we've got people who are non-English speakers, in Thailand, in parts of Canada speaking French, speaking Spanish, but the fact now that we can come together with the shared language is incredibly powerful.

So, I think having some sort of view of what's your framework for leadership? What's the language you would like that to have? And what are the key beliefs that want to underpin that? been really powerful for us, because those are the principles that underpin all the work. The practices might evolve over time, but you've got these essentially fundamental principles that you go, "That's the anchor for us." We just stay true to that.

And probably the third thing is just keep learning. Keep listening to people, take their feedback on board, and just go from there.

Dan Hibberd: Love it, Luke. Thank you so much again for taking time out today. And I think the work that you're doing is really ahead of the curve, and so I'm excited to see where this next phase of the program goes. The idea of co-creating with those that you're having to deliver the program I think really stands out for me. So, look, thank you again. And to all of our listeners, I have no doubt that there's plenty of nuggets in what Luke has had to share.

Mike Courian: And that wraps up this episode of Shape Shifters. Thanks for sticking with us to the end. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to follow us wherever you

Mike Courian: listen to podcasts, connect with us on LinkedIn, or head to the Shapeshifters website and sign up for our community. We love getting to have these conversations, and we are grateful for your support.

Until next time, I'm Mike Courian, and this is Shapeshifters.